Comments on: The EPP and the Conservative Party: Your Move, Mr Cameron http://www.entangledalliances.com/2009/03/the-epp-and-the-conservative-party-your-move-mr-cameron/ Fri, 03 Feb 2012 03:14:07 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Cameron’s playing games with Europe - Follow Up | Entangled Alliances http://www.entangledalliances.com/2009/03/the-epp-and-the-conservative-party-your-move-mr-cameron/comment-page-1/#comment-188 Cameron’s playing games with Europe - Follow Up | Entangled Alliances Sun, 22 Mar 2009 15:25:09 +0000 http://www.entangledalliances.com/?p=806#comment-188 [...] Mark announced on the update to his post, Cameron has formally reasserted his desire for the Conservatives to leave the European [...] [...] Mark announced on the update to his post, Cameron has formally reasserted his desire for the Conservatives to leave the European [...]

]]> By: Chris Fellingham http://www.entangledalliances.com/2009/03/the-epp-and-the-conservative-party-your-move-mr-cameron/comment-page-1/#comment-163 Chris Fellingham Sun, 15 Mar 2009 22:13:33 +0000 http://www.entangledalliances.com/?p=806#comment-163 But I don't think Tories would ever seriously consider withdrawal, making this whole move slightly redundant, but that is the subject of my next post :-p But I don’t think Tories would ever seriously consider withdrawal, making this whole move slightly redundant, but that is the subject of my next post :-p

]]> By: Tim Roll-Pickering http://www.entangledalliances.com/2009/03/the-epp-and-the-conservative-party-your-move-mr-cameron/comment-page-1/#comment-162 Tim Roll-Pickering Sun, 15 Mar 2009 16:01:02 +0000 http://www.entangledalliances.com/?p=806#comment-162 This will get the Conservatives a few extra votes in the elections this June that they wouldn't have otherwise got, but they'll be from Conservative party members who voted UKIP last time. As for the sceptic & pro European positions falling on right-left lines in the UK, this is in part because the centre-right in the UK is a different beast from the continent. There are differences between Conservatism and Christian Democracy and it is these very differences that are at the root not only of the strained relations between the Conservatives and the EPP (remember originally it was the EPP who were sceptical of membership) but indeed of the Conservatives' growing alienation with the European project as a whole. The project is very much a Christian Democrat one, in which free trade was a mere means to an end, whereas for the Conservatives free trade was supposed to be an end in itself. Hence Conservatives are not keen on a project that is not going in a Conservative direction. The Conservative membership generally know very little about European centre-right parties (if they did they might not have been taken in by the claims that "a new grouping of Eurosceptic Conservative parties" was just waiting to be formed) or instinctively feel they are the most natural cousin parties - run a poll on their favourite elected centre-right leader in the world and you won't see many votes for Nicolas Sarkozy or Anglea Markel, who do have a profile here, won't get many votes, let alone Mirek Topolánek (despite actually being a conservative prime minister in a European country). Instead it will be a landslide for Canada's Stephen Harper. Chris - you're right that if the PES is the largest party it might make withdrawal seem a more attractive option. I don't think this has escaped some anti-EPPers' notice... This will get the Conservatives a few extra votes in the elections this June that they wouldn’t have otherwise got, but they’ll be from Conservative party members who voted UKIP last time.

As for the sceptic & pro European positions falling on right-left lines in the UK, this is in part because the centre-right in the UK is a different beast from the continent. There are differences between Conservatism and Christian Democracy and it is these very differences that are at the root not only of the strained relations between the Conservatives and the EPP (remember originally it was the EPP who were sceptical of membership) but indeed of the Conservatives’ growing alienation with the European project as a whole. The project is very much a Christian Democrat one, in which free trade was a mere means to an end, whereas for the Conservatives free trade was supposed to be an end in itself. Hence Conservatives are not keen on a project that is not going in a Conservative direction.

The Conservative membership generally know very little about European centre-right parties (if they did they might not have been taken in by the claims that “a new grouping of Eurosceptic Conservative parties” was just waiting to be formed) or instinctively feel they are the most natural cousin parties – run a poll on their favourite elected centre-right leader in the world and you won’t see many votes for Nicolas Sarkozy or Anglea Markel, who do have a profile here, won’t get many votes, let alone Mirek Topolánek (despite actually being a conservative prime minister in a European country). Instead it will be a landslide for Canada’s Stephen Harper.

Chris – you’re right that if the PES is the largest party it might make withdrawal seem a more attractive option. I don’t think this has escaped some anti-EPPers’ notice…

]]> By: Chris Fellingham http://www.entangledalliances.com/2009/03/the-epp-and-the-conservative-party-your-move-mr-cameron/comment-page-1/#comment-161 Chris Fellingham Sun, 15 Mar 2009 12:42:20 +0000 http://www.entangledalliances.com/?p=806#comment-161 Right so the EPP might just lose their vote and then Parliament swings to PSE and makes legislation the Tories hate even more :-p Right so the EPP might just lose their vote and then Parliament swings to PSE and makes legislation the Tories hate even more :-p

]]> By: Mark Bailey http://www.entangledalliances.com/2009/03/the-epp-and-the-conservative-party-your-move-mr-cameron/comment-page-1/#comment-156 Mark Bailey Thu, 12 Mar 2009 15:28:36 +0000 http://www.entangledalliances.com/?p=806#comment-156 I don't think he'll get any political traction, but it's probably useful internally. On the question of the balance of power in the Parliament, there's an excellent article here: http://www.euractiv.com/en/eu-elections/uk-tories-return-eu-socialists-power/article-180179 I don’t think he’ll get any political traction, but it’s probably useful internally.

On the question of the balance of power in the Parliament, there’s an excellent article here: http://www.euractiv.com/en/eu-elections/uk-tories-return-eu-socialists-power/article-180179

]]> By: Mark Brough http://www.entangledalliances.com/2009/03/the-epp-and-the-conservative-party-your-move-mr-cameron/comment-page-1/#comment-154 Mark Brough Thu, 12 Mar 2009 12:50:14 +0000 http://www.entangledalliances.com/?p=806#comment-154 Yeah it does look like they're leaving then - which is going to be a bit of a mess for the Tories. What's the betting there will be some kind of fudge? Do you reckon they think they're going to get any political traction from this, that it will boost their chances in June? I can't see why any non-political wonks would vote for them on the basis of their withdrawal from the EPP. It would be really brilliant if, as a result, the EPP lost their domination of the Parliament... Yeah it does look like they’re leaving then – which is going to be a bit of a mess for the Tories. What’s the betting there will be some kind of fudge?

Do you reckon they think they’re going to get any political traction from this, that it will boost their chances in June? I can’t see why any non-political wonks would vote for them on the basis of their withdrawal from the EPP.

It would be really brilliant if, as a result, the EPP lost their domination of the Parliament…

]]> By: Chris Fellingham http://www.entangledalliances.com/2009/03/the-epp-and-the-conservative-party-your-move-mr-cameron/comment-page-1/#comment-153 Chris Fellingham Thu, 12 Mar 2009 10:34:12 +0000 http://www.entangledalliances.com/?p=806#comment-153 Well when I said much, maybe a significant vein. Well when I said much, maybe a significant vein.

]]> By: Chris Fellingham http://www.entangledalliances.com/2009/03/the-epp-and-the-conservative-party-your-move-mr-cameron/comment-page-1/#comment-152 Chris Fellingham Thu, 12 Mar 2009 10:31:05 +0000 http://www.entangledalliances.com/?p=806#comment-152 While I admit being biased by Conservative at University, I do think that much of Conservative Euroscepticism is actually built on a longing for the Commonwealth, Cameron even indicated this when a while back he ran an article saying forget Europe, we should be thinking of trade with India. I think they resent the ideaof Britain having to be an equal on a continent that it long seemed the above. While I admit being biased by Conservative at University, I do think that much of Conservative Euroscepticism is actually built on a longing for the Commonwealth, Cameron even indicated this when a while back he ran an article saying forget Europe, we should be thinking of trade with India. I think they resent the ideaof Britain having to be an equal on a continent that it long seemed the above.

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